The idea for this week's Coin Dealer Ethics discussion was sent in by Sandy B. in Corpus Christi, Texas. She wrote:
Hi,
I'd very much like to learn ways of handling coin dealers who try to scam female customers, especially women who are just starting a coin collection.Thank you,
Sandi B.
Corpus Christi, Texas
Sandy's message reminded me of a scene I witnessed at one of those local coin shows in Las Vegas, Nevada, run by Bick International. It was the last Bick show I ever went to, because I ended up getting thrown out! The scenario below probably won't be of much help to Sandi and her efforts to gain advice on how women should handle coin dealers, but I'll have an article written next week in response to her question.
Here's this week's scenario:
I was standing at the table of the only coin dealer at the show who had any ancient coins in pick boxes, a wonderfully friendly fellow by the name of Roy Comnick (of Comnick's Coins in Prescott Valley, AZ.) An elderly lady, probably at least 80 years old, came up to the table of the dealer next to us (whose name I don't know.) This dealer had a prominent sign that said BUYING COINS.
The elderly lady, (who we'll call "Agnes,") was carrying a good-sized jar of mixed U.S. coinage, mostly pre-1850 silver and copper coins such as large cents, half cents, etc. She asked the dealer with the BUYING sign if he would look at her coins and tell her how much they were worth.
The dealer produced a felt tray and asked the lady to pour her jar of coins onto the tray, which she did. I could see the Bust Dollars and Half Dollars, high grade Large Cents, and a scattering of smaller silver coins that I couldn't quite make out. The dealer got out his loupe and looked at a few of the coins closely and asked the lady where she got them as he examined them. She said they belonged to her father and that she had run across them while going through some old family trunks in preparation for selling her house. She said she brought them to the coin show to get an appraisal and sell them since none of her children had any interest in them. The dealer (who evidently wasn't listening) asked her if she wanted to sell them, and she replied, "That's why I'm here."
While all of this is going on, I stood there watching with some interest. I've seen what happens when people bring in their jars, bottles and boxes of old coins, and I was waiting to see if this lady would be treated any differently. We weren't dealing with Wheat Pennies and worn out Mercury Dimes here! This was obviously auction-quality material that needed more than just a quick 3 minute assessment before counting up the face value and buying the silver at bullion spot price.
After 3 or 4 minutes, the dealer made a sort of grumbling sound and said that her coins weren't exactly in mint state and that copper isn't a precious metal, but "how much do you want for them?" The lady replied that she didn't know; she had brought them in to have them appraised because she didn't know anything about coins. The dealer responded that he didn't have time at this busy show (it was actually quite dead) to do full appraisals for free, but if she wanted to sell them to name a price and he'd take it or leave it.
The lady seemed a little uncertain here, and began rounding up her coins to put them back in her jar when the dealer spoke up again, "Lady, your coins are not in mint state grade. You can take them around to every table here, and nobody is going to pay you more than I will, assuming they're even buying. Do you see any other BUYING COINS signs in here? Save yourself the time and trouble and just name a price. I'm having a good show; I'll probably pay what you ask."
It's worth pointing out here that her coins were likely worth thousands of dollars each. This was one of the most remarkable rip-offs I had ever witnessed, and my heart starting pumping faster and my palms were getting damp as I saw where this was going.
The little old lady looked up hopefully into the dealer's face, and tremulously asked, "Do you think they're worth as much as a thousand dollars? I'd probably take that, they're nothing to me, I didn't even know I had them until last month."
I saw the coin dealer's pupils briefly dilate, and old poker-playing tell that lets you know your opponent has just made a BIG hand. He knew he was getting a huge gift, and as my blood starting rushing faster through my veins, in response to the outrage I was feeling, the coin dealer said, "Lady, a thousand dollars is a lot of money for these coins. Why don't I give you $700 in cash and we'll call it a deal." He was a masterful pro at this rip-off business, and already had the cash out of his pocket, counting off the hundreds while the lady watched uncertainly.
This was the point at which I finally lost it. I said to the lady (who knew I had been standing there watching the whole time,) "Ma'am, your coins are worth several thousand dollars EACH probably. Don't take his offer! Take them around and get some other offers first!" I would have said more, but the dealer had practically jumped across his table and gotten in my face and said, "This is none of your business. Get out of here." Then, turning to the lady, this dealer (who had never seen me before in his life) said, "I know this woman, she's a real shark. She hates to see anybody else make a sale. I'll give you the thousand dollars for your old coins, but that's a GIFT, take it or leave it now."
I told the lady, "Leave it! Go get more offers! Your coins are EARLY BUST DOLLARS, those are very valuable coins!" At this point, the coin dealer shouted for the bourse chairman, for security, and for the police, all in one long shout. Heads everywhere turned our direction, and several people in police or security uniforms came running from everywhere at once.
The coin dealer pointed at me and demanded that they throw me out. He said that I was interfering with his business and intimidating his customers. One of the security guards reached behind his belt and produced a set of handcuffs, and I got the point. By this time, a man that I presume was the bourse chairman came running over and rather anti-climatically told me to leave the show and that I wasn't welcome there again. I protested that this dealer was about to steal from this woman, but by then a security guard had me by the arm and was hustling me toward the exit, a little more forcefully than strictly necessary since I wasn't struggling (just shouting) and I had bruises on my arm the next day.
I do not know whether that lady sold her coins to that charlatan or not. I tried to find out who he was after the show, by calling the bourse chairman's office and enquiring about who was in that spot, but I didn't have the booth number and I hadn't bothered to pick up one of their flimsy little show programs.
There are two sides to this debate, regarding the actions I took that day. One side says that I was right to try to warn the lady (although I could have perhaps been more discreet or handled it differently once I saw the value of her coins.) The other side says that I had absolutely no right at all to say a single word; the transaction was none of my business and it was wrong of me to interfere.
What do you think? Should I have spoken up? What would you have done? Share your thoughts via the comments link below and next week we'll have a look at your responses.
Follow-Up - You can read the follow-up to this column, where we look at some of the readers' responses about the elderly lady and her coins.
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